Anyone Make 17 Inch Widescreen Tablet?

[Will]

Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?

[Chris H.]

No. The bigger the Tablet PC configuration, the heavier it is.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Jonathan Sachs]

Post by Chris H.

Post by Will
Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?

No. The bigger the Tablet PC configuration, the heavier it is.

And...?

It is puzzling to me, with all the advocacy for smaller alternative
platforms, that nobody seems to consider the advantages of a LARGER
alternative platform.

The unspoken assumption appears to be that tablet computers are
necessarily portable. I cannot think of any reason why that should be
so. A tablet office computer would have the same advantages over a
conventional office computer that a tablet portable computer has over
a conventional portable computer. For people who do not have
portability needs (there are many) or can justify having two computers
(there are also many), the logic of such a platform would be
compelling.

My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Mickey Segal]

People have discussed jumbo tablets before; they are a great idea for people
who need pen input and don't need to carry around the tablet. Ultimately
one would expect a diversity of sizes for a diversity of needs. I'd expect
doctors to want the jacket pocket size and artists to want the jumbo size.

Post by Jonathan Sachs
It is puzzling to me, with all the advocacy for smaller alternative
platforms, that nobody seems to consider the advantages of a LARGER
alternative platform.

[Chris H.]

The larger the configuration, the more put into that configuration, the
heavier the unit will be. It isn't ideal for a hallway warrior or anyone
who carries a Tablet PC into a field condition, or like a warehouse doing
inventory.

The trend in Tablet PCs (including the recently released Motion LS800) has
been to push the 4-pound barrier, dipping toward a 3-pounder. When you add
a large screen, there's more interior space, too, so manufacturers are more
likely to build in a CD or DVD drive, adding more weight.

If you're a sports coach and want to show your charges a play to use, would
you want a unit it takes two hands to hold? How do you draw a diagram of a
play? There are plenty of laptops with larger screens if that's what one is
wanting. There are laptops which even have remote controls with them for
viewing DVD movies. But, they just don't do Ink. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Jonathan Sachs

Post by Chris H.

Post by Will
Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?

No. The bigger the Tablet PC configuration, the heavier it is.

And...?
It is puzzling to me, with all the advocacy for smaller alternative
platforms, that nobody seems to consider the advantages of a LARGER
alternative platform.
The unspoken assumption appears to be that tablet computers are
necessarily portable. I cannot think of any reason why that should be
so. A tablet office computer would have the same advantages over a
conventional office computer that a tablet portable computer has over
a conventional portable computer. For people who do not have
portability needs (there are many) or can justify having two computers
(there are also many), the logic of such a platform would be
compelling.
My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Jonathan Sachs]

Post by Chris H.
If you're a sports coach and want to show your charges a play to use, would
you want a unit it takes two hands to hold? How do you draw a diagram of a
play?...

You missed the point -- I'll try to make it simpler.

Different people have different needs.

Different form factors have different advantages and disadvantages.

Some people can work most effectively with a letter-size tablet
computer.

Some people could work most effectively with a computer that fits in a
pocket, even though it has less screen space.

Some people could work most effectively with a computer that has more
screen space (and other features), even though it isn't portable.

And there is no reason why a person who needs a larger, nonportable
computer can't need tablet capability in the same machine.

Clear now?

My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Chris H.]

Oh, I "get it" Jonathan. Always have, and was only presenting a opposite
view. No need to be rude, since we're only exchanging ideas. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Jonathan Sachs

Post by Chris H.
If you're a sports coach and want to show your charges a play to use, would
you want a unit it takes two hands to hold? How do you draw a diagram of a
play?...

You missed the point -- I'll try to make it simpler.
Different people have different needs.
Different form factors have different advantages and disadvantages.
Some people can work most effectively with a letter-size tablet
computer.
Some people could work most effectively with a computer that fits in a
pocket, even though it has less screen space.
Some people could work most effectively with a computer that has more
screen space (and other features), even though it isn't portable.
And there is no reason why a person who needs a larger, nonportable
computer can't need tablet capability in the same machine.
Clear now?
My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Ken Schaefer]

And the market for large screen 17" tablet PCs is probably about 2 people.
And those two people aren't willing to fork out $10000 for their tablets.

Cheers
Ken
--
IIS Blog: www.adopenstatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/
Web: www.adopenstatic.com


"Jonathan Sachs" <***@earthlink.not> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:54:47 -0700, "Chris H." <***@hotmail.com>
: wrote:
:
: >If you're a sports coach and want to show your charges a play to use,
would
: >you want a unit it takes two hands to hold? How do you draw a diagram of
a
: >play?...
:
: You missed the point -- I'll try to make it simpler.
:
: Different people have different needs.
:
: Different form factors have different advantages and disadvantages.
:
: Some people can work most effectively with a letter-size tablet
: computer.
:
: Some people could work most effectively with a computer that fits in a
: pocket, even though it has less screen space.
:
: Some people could work most effectively with a computer that has more
: screen space (and other features), even though it isn't portable.
:
: And there is no reason why a person who needs a larger, nonportable
: computer can't need tablet capability in the same machine.
:
: Clear now?
:
: My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Will]

In fact I would argue the market for 17 inch widescreen tablet PCs is
probably four times or more what the market is for the typical 800x600 or
1024x768 tablets. With many desktop users now routinely running at
1600x1200 or higher resolutions on large format monitors, and even many
notebooks running at 1280x1024, who would want to make the step down in
resolution just to be able to use a tablet? Today's tablets are
special-purpose devices, not mainstream mass market devices. But a tablet
with a large-screen format could be used as a desktop replacement, and would
therefore open up a much much larger audience of users.
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Ken Schaefer
And the market for large screen 17" tablet PCs is probably about 2 people.
And those two people aren't willing to fork out $10000 for their tablets.
Cheers
Ken
--
IIS Blog: www.adopenstatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/
Web: www.adopenstatic.com

[Chris H.]

One doesn't need to go to a 17-inch Tablet PC just for 1280x1024. That's
what I run on a Toshiba M200. The newer editions of Tablets have more
flexibility in resolution than two and a half years ago when Tablets were
new to the scene.

To me, a larger screen isn't necessary because in operation a Tablet is
closer to the user than a laptop or desktop.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
In fact I would argue the market for 17 inch widescreen tablet PCs is
probably four times or more what the market is for the typical 800x600 or
1024x768 tablets. With many desktop users now routinely running at
1600x1200 or higher resolutions on large format monitors, and even many
notebooks running at 1280x1024, who would want to make the step down in
resolution just to be able to use a tablet? Today's tablets are
special-purpose devices, not mainstream mass market devices. But a tablet
with a large-screen format could be used as a desktop replacement, and would
therefore open up a much much larger audience of users.
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Ken Schaefer
And the market for large screen 17" tablet PCs is probably about 2 people.
And those two people aren't willing to fork out $10000 for their tablets.
Cheers
Ken
--
IIS Blog: www.adopenstatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/
Web: www.adopenstatic.com

[Will]

One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't trade
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet if
they have to give up that high resolution.
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Chris H.
One doesn't need to go to a 17-inch Tablet PC just for 1280x1024. That's
what I run on a Toshiba M200. The newer editions of Tablets have more
flexibility in resolution than two and a half years ago when Tablets were
new to the scene.
To me, a larger screen isn't necessary because in operation a Tablet is
closer to the user than a laptop or desktop.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

[James Kendrick]

Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance for
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't trade
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet if
they have to give up that high resolution.

[Will]

Probably we should distinguish two concepts:

- Portability

- Tablet-Style User Interface

Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.

Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.

The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance for
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't trade
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet if
they have to give up that high resolution.

[Chris H.]

I'm going to disagree with your analysis, Will. The portability of Tablet
PCs is paramount. Only recent entries into the market have emerged pushing
five pounds, and they're more like a "hybrid" in that the form factor has a
previous incarnation as a laptop.

The "true" Tablet PC is under four pounds (with a couple under three) and
are all meant to be highly portable, usable while held in one hand as the
user does what Tablets do best - using the pen. The Motion LS800 is an
example of a Tablet PC morphing into yet another useful form factor.

Laptops, with the rare exception of a few mid-five-pounders now, have always
been destined for a table top somewhere, with the screen forming a barrier
in front of the user. I've got a "lightweight" Sony Vaio which is about
four years old which pushes eight pounds. A Tablet PC convertible model you
can use in "laptop mode" seated at a table, but resting on your thighs. You
don't use a laptop like that unless you want to put your legs to sleep. 8-)

Which Tablet PC do you own, Will?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Will]

Currently I own the HP tr3000, which I guess is OEM Itronix Gobook. It's a
small but heavy 8" screen 800x600. I use it for GPS applications where
portability and size are important.

I have other applications that currently use desktop machines where I would
consider replacement with a tablet PC, but not unless I could get at least
1600x1200.

One great application for a large-format, stationary tablet PC is a home
entertainment system. Unlikely people want to use a mouse or keyboard with
their family TV. Having some form of touchscreen and remote control that
could control the pointer from a viewing area would be a nice product.

Rather than focus on technology, I think it is more useful to focus on
requirements for specific applications. Certain applications require
small portable tablets. Others do not.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Chris H.
I'm going to disagree with your analysis, Will. The portability of Tablet
PCs is paramount. Only recent entries into the market have emerged pushing
five pounds, and they're more like a "hybrid" in that the form factor has a
previous incarnation as a laptop.
The "true" Tablet PC is under four pounds (with a couple under three) and
are all meant to be highly portable, usable while held in one hand as the
user does what Tablets do best - using the pen. The Motion LS800 is an
example of a Tablet PC morphing into yet another useful form factor.
Laptops, with the rare exception of a few mid-five-pounders now, have always
been destined for a table top somewhere, with the screen forming a barrier
in front of the user. I've got a "lightweight" Sony Vaio which is about
four years old which pushes eight pounds. A Tablet PC convertible model you
can use in "laptop mode" seated at a table, but resting on your thighs.

You

Post by Chris H.
don't use a laptop like that unless you want to put your legs to sleep.

8-)

Post by Chris H.
Which Tablet PC do you own, Will?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Chris H.]

Oh, I'm sorry, Will. I think you're at a distinct disadvantage of not
having a Tablet PC, and may have some misconceptions of exactly what a
Tablet PC is. I think if you could spend two or three days immersed in
Tablet usage you'd see what is so attractive about them. 8-)

At the present time, I believe there is only one manufacturer which offers
any form of touch screen, with the vast majority of the products being
digitized screens. Even the touch screen version has both that and
digitized screen, so the user can switch back and forth. They're a lot
different than a PPC, for instance. The screens have a much different feel,
too, more like a pencil on paper now.

I think the only way you'd find you don't really need the 1600x1200
resolution is by using a Tablet PC for a while. As I've said before,
Tablets are unlike any other computer and you use them differently, closer
than others. Like I've described, they're more like a friendly paperback
book than a stodgy hardbound copy. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
Currently I own the HP tr3000, which I guess is OEM Itronix Gobook. It's a
small but heavy 8" screen 800x600. I use it for GPS applications where
portability and size are important.
I have other applications that currently use desktop machines where I would
consider replacement with a tablet PC, but not unless I could get at least
1600x1200.
One great application for a large-format, stationary tablet PC is a home
entertainment system. Unlikely people want to use a mouse or keyboard with
their family TV. Having some form of touchscreen and remote control that
could control the pointer from a viewing area would be a nice product.
Rather than focus on technology, I think it is more useful to focus on
requirements for specific applications. Certain applications require
small portable tablets. Others do not.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Will]

Since when is an HP tr3000 not a tablet PC? HP would be interested to hear
from you about why all of their advertising is wrong:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/irg/tabletpc/rugged/
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Chris H.
Oh, I'm sorry, Will. I think you're at a distinct disadvantage of not
having a Tablet PC, and may have some misconceptions of exactly what a
Tablet PC is. I think if you could spend two or three days immersed in
Tablet usage you'd see what is so attractive about them. 8-)
At the present time, I believe there is only one manufacturer which offers
any form of touch screen, with the vast majority of the products being
digitized screens. Even the touch screen version has both that and
digitized screen, so the user can switch back and forth. They're a lot
different than a PPC, for instance. The screens have a much different feel,
too, more like a pencil on paper now.
I think the only way you'd find you don't really need the 1600x1200
resolution is by using a Tablet PC for a while. As I've said before,
Tablets are unlike any other computer and you use them differently, closer
than others. Like I've described, they're more like a friendly paperback
book than a stodgy hardbound copy. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

[Chris H.]

It is a ruggedized model, Will. I'm talking about a regular Tablet PC which
is much thinner, much lighter. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
Since when is an HP tr3000 not a tablet PC? HP would be interested to hear
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/irg/tabletpc/rugged/
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Will]

So then you should say "unfortunately you don't own a light tablet" and not
"you are at the distinct disadvantage of not having a tablet PC."

It is a tablet PC, and it does anything that 90% of all tablets do. The
entire conversation is starting to sound like you define "tablet PC" to be
just those models of tablet PCs that you personally enjoy using, for
whatever you use them for.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by Chris H.
It is a ruggedized model, Will. I'm talking about a regular Tablet PC which
is much thinner, much lighter. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
Since when is an HP tr3000 not a tablet PC? HP would be interested to hear
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/irg/tabletpc/rugged/
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[Chris H.]

Nope. Sorry if I veered off a bit. The lighter, the better, methinks. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
So then you should say "unfortunately you don't own a light tablet" and not
"you are at the distinct disadvantage of not having a tablet PC."
It is a tablet PC, and it does anything that 90% of all tablets do. The
entire conversation is starting to sound like you define "tablet PC" to be
just those models of tablet PCs that you personally enjoy using, for
whatever you use them for.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[terri]

Bill Gates' vision is to see the Tablet OS on all portable computers, not
just Tablet PCs. Acer released a notebook that ran the Tablet OS, although
the screen didn't pivot.

I can also see the usefulness of the Tablet PC operating system on desktops
for some users, especially those who do extensive markups. Editing or
reviewing would be a prime example.

Even simple e-mail can take on a new dimension when a sender can highlight
specific areas of a Web page for example, before sending it to a friend or
colleague

Although people's visions may differ in usefulness, what one finds
completely unusable, another may find necessary.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC
.

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance

for

Post by James Kendrick
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't

trade

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet

if

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
they have to give up that high resolution.

[James Kendrick]

The user who wants a large display can continue to use a desktop or large
screen notebook with a digitizing tablet and have a robust pen input
experience. There are a lot of programs that are optimized for such a setup
and many people have been using them happily for years. This is why I was
saying a giant Tablet PC is not really necessary nor likely to appear on the
market. The Tablet PC market is definitely into mobility and portability.

Post by terri
Bill Gates' vision is to see the Tablet OS on all portable computers, not
just Tablet PCs. Acer released a notebook that ran the Tablet OS,
although the screen didn't pivot.
I can also see the usefulness of the Tablet PC operating system on
desktops for some users, especially those who do extensive markups.
Editing or reviewing would be a prime example.
Even simple e-mail can take on a new dimension when a sender can highlight
specific areas of a Web page for example, before sending it to a friend or
colleague
Although people's visions may differ in usefulness, what one finds
completely unusable, another may find necessary.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC
.

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance

for

Post by James Kendrick
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't

trade

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet

if

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
they have to give up that high resolution.

[terri]

Just as with Tablet PCs, it looks as though there is a wide variety in
opinions about the sizes that should be offered. Doesn't make anyone right
or wrong, we just have a different outlook on things.

I don't expect to see any 17" or larger Tablets in the near future. The
cost of the screen alone makes that pretty unfeasible. I wouldn't be
surprised to see them if the technology changes and the full screen
digitizer becomes an overlay.

While many of us thought that the sizes for most Tablet PCs would be getting
smaller, some of the bigger Tablet players went larger, moving from 12" to
14" and adding optical drives, etc. 3 years ago, I wouldn't have expected
to see that, so I'm not making any guesses as to what the next 3 years may
bring. :)

Smaller? I'd bet on it. Even larger? I wouldn't hazard a guess.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC

Post by James Kendrick
The user who wants a large display can continue to use a desktop or large
screen notebook with a digitizing tablet and have a robust pen input
experience. There are a lot of programs that are optimized for such a
setup and many people have been using them happily for years. This is why
I was saying a giant Tablet PC is not really necessary nor likely to
appear on the market. The Tablet PC market is definitely into mobility
and portability.

Post by terri
Bill Gates' vision is to see the Tablet OS on all portable computers, not
just Tablet PCs. Acer released a notebook that ran the Tablet OS,
although the screen didn't pivot.
I can also see the usefulness of the Tablet PC operating system on
desktops for some users, especially those who do extensive markups.
Editing or reviewing would be a prime example.
Even simple e-mail can take on a new dimension when a sender can
highlight specific areas of a Web page for example, before sending it to
a friend or colleague
Although people's visions may differ in usefulness, what one finds
completely unusable, another may find necessary.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC
.

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance

for

Post by James Kendrick
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't

trade

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet

if

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
they have to give up that high resolution.

[James Kendrick]

That's true- Eric Mack has told me he wants a 17" Tablet. :)

Post by terri
Just as with Tablet PCs, it looks as though there is a wide variety in
opinions about the sizes that should be offered. Doesn't make anyone
right or wrong, we just have a different outlook on things.
I don't expect to see any 17" or larger Tablets in the near future. The
cost of the screen alone makes that pretty unfeasible. I wouldn't be
surprised to see them if the technology changes and the full screen
digitizer becomes an overlay.
While many of us thought that the sizes for most Tablet PCs would be
getting smaller, some of the bigger Tablet players went larger, moving
from 12" to 14" and adding optical drives, etc. 3 years ago, I wouldn't
have expected to see that, so I'm not making any guesses as to what the
next 3 years may bring. :)
Smaller? I'd bet on it. Even larger? I wouldn't hazard a guess.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC

Post by James Kendrick
The user who wants a large display can continue to use a desktop or large
screen notebook with a digitizing tablet and have a robust pen input
experience. There are a lot of programs that are optimized for such a
setup and many people have been using them happily for years. This is
why I was saying a giant Tablet PC is not really necessary nor likely to
appear on the market. The Tablet PC market is definitely into mobility
and portability.

Post by terri
Bill Gates' vision is to see the Tablet OS on all portable computers,
not just Tablet PCs. Acer released a notebook that ran the Tablet OS,
although the screen didn't pivot.
I can also see the usefulness of the Tablet PC operating system on
desktops for some users, especially those who do extensive markups.
Editing or reviewing would be a prime example.
Even simple e-mail can take on a new dimension when a sender can
highlight specific areas of a Web page for example, before sending it to
a friend or colleague
Although people's visions may differ in usefulness, what one finds
completely unusable, another may find necessary.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC
.

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance

for

Post by James Kendrick
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't

trade

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet

if

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
they have to give up that high resolution.

[Josh Einstein]

I posted this a few days ago but it never showed up. Also now I see this on
Engadget (I know it's not a Tablet PC so please do not insert the standard
disclaimer):

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000080052491/

- Message that did not post -

I think the best thing about Tablet PC's is that there are so many different
form factors to choose from. I would personally never buy anything bigger
than 12" but I am a developer so resolution is very important to me.

For that reason, I have a brilliantly beautiful Dell 24" Widescreen LCD at
1920x1200 which I can dock the Tablet PC up to when I'm at my desk and then
on the go I'll live with 1024x768. My eyesight ain't the greatest either so
I don't know if I could handle a high resolution 12" screen.

But different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks. I, for one,
welcome the variety of form factors. These larger tablets have been getting
people who are otherwise uninterested in tablets suddenly interested in
them.

Bring 'em on!
--
Josh Einstein
Tablet Enhancements for Outlook 2.0 - Try it free for 14 days
www.tabletoutlook.com
--
Josh Einstein
Tablet Enhancements for Outlook 2.0 - Try it free for 14 days
www.tabletoutlook.com

Post by James Kendrick
That's true- Eric Mack has told me he wants a 17" Tablet. :)

Post by terri
Just as with Tablet PCs, it looks as though there is a wide variety in
opinions about the sizes that should be offered. Doesn't make anyone
right or wrong, we just have a different outlook on things.
I don't expect to see any 17" or larger Tablets in the near future. The
cost of the screen alone makes that pretty unfeasible. I wouldn't be
surprised to see them if the technology changes and the full screen
digitizer becomes an overlay.
While many of us thought that the sizes for most Tablet PCs would be
getting smaller, some of the bigger Tablet players went larger, moving
from 12" to 14" and adding optical drives, etc. 3 years ago, I wouldn't
have expected to see that, so I'm not making any guesses as to what the
next 3 years may bring. :)
Smaller? I'd bet on it. Even larger? I wouldn't hazard a guess.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC

Post by James Kendrick
The user who wants a large display can continue to use a desktop or
large screen notebook with a digitizing tablet and have a robust pen
input experience. There are a lot of programs that are optimized for
such a setup and many people have been using them happily for years.
This is why I was saying a giant Tablet PC is not really necessary nor
likely to appear on the market. The Tablet PC market is definitely into
mobility and portability.

Post by terri
Bill Gates' vision is to see the Tablet OS on all portable computers,
not just Tablet PCs. Acer released a notebook that ran the Tablet OS,
although the screen didn't pivot.
I can also see the usefulness of the Tablet PC operating system on
desktops for some users, especially those who do extensive markups.
Editing or reviewing would be a prime example.
Even simple e-mail can take on a new dimension when a sender can
highlight specific areas of a Web page for example, before sending it
to a friend or colleague
Although people's visions may differ in usefulness, what one finds
completely unusable, another may find necessary.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC
.

Post by Will
- Portability
- Tablet-Style User Interface
Today tablet PCs are both portable and use a tablet-style user interface.
Portability isn't unique to tablets however. Notebook PCs have been around
a long time and take the desktop format and shrink it so you can carry it
around. Portability is a nice thing to have, and essential for some jobs
and not essential for others.
Tablet-Style User Interface is nice to have in some cases, and the point to
make is that it would be nice to have tablet-style user interfaces on
desktop machines, without the portability.
The two concepts each have their own applications, and the point to stress
is that tablet-style user interfaces have merits in cases where portability
is not a requirement.
--
Will
Internet: westes AT earthbroadcast.com

Post by James Kendrick
Those are the people that currently carry their entire desktop around with
them. For everyone else a 14" screen is about at the limit of tolerance

for

Post by James Kendrick
carrying around with you at over 6 pounds.

Post by Will
One goes to a tablet for a different method of interacting with Windows,
that was clear from ths start. My point is that many people won't

trade

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
the high resolution of a normal desktop for the advantages of a tablet

if

Post by James Kendrick

Post by Will
they have to give up that high resolution.

[Jonathan Sachs]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:28:26 -0400, "Josh Einstein"

Post by Josh Einstein
But different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks. I, for one,
welcome the variety of form factors. These larger tablets have been getting
people who are otherwise uninterested in tablets suddenly interested in
them.

Right on. I haven't thought about this in years, but I used to dream
about having a desktop computer. It wouldn't sit on the desktop; it
would BE the desktop.

Given my current desk's form factor, that would require a 70" screen.
I fear I will have to wait a while longer, but I look forward to the
intermediate steps.

My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Josh Einstein]

That's actually a really cool concept. Of course the type of work I do
wouldn't go well with that but an artist or architect would probably love
it.
--
Josh Einstein
Tablet Enhancements for Outlook 2.0 - Try it free for 14 days
www.tabletoutlook.com

Post by Jonathan Sachs
Right on. I haven't thought about this in years, but I used to dream
about having a desktop computer. It wouldn't sit on the desktop; it
would BE the desktop.

[Jonathan Sachs]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:01:28 -0400, "Josh Einstein"

Post by Josh Einstein
That's actually a really cool concept. Of course the type of work I do
wouldn't go well with that but an artist or architect would probably love
it.

In my old age I've become more moderate. I'm now inclined to believe
that a desk-pad computer would be equally useful and more convenient.
The screen would be 24" to 32". Is that reasonable, or what?

My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Mickey Segal]

Post by Jonathan Sachs
In my old age I've become more moderate. I'm now inclined to believe
that a desk-pad computer would be equally useful and more convenient.
The screen would be 24" to 32". Is that reasonable, or what?

When I was in college I would sit in a reclining chair with a wooden board
that I would place over the arms of the chair, giving me a surface to work
on. Such a reclining chair configuration may be even more attractive in
your old age. One of the nice things about a tablet is that you can sit in
a comfortable chair or on a sofa. With a tablet as a desk pad you are
already starting out at a 45 degree angle from the screen.

[Jonathan Sachs]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:55:42 +1000, "Ken Schaefer"

Post by Ken Schaefer
And the market for large screen 17" tablet PCs is probably about 2 people.
And those two people aren't willing to fork out $10000 for their tablets.

The larger screen would certainly be more expensive, although I think
your $10,000 estimate is excessive.

I suspect that price point _is_ the primary reason why we have not
seen large-screen nonportable tablet PCs yet. As soon as advancing
technology and increasing production volume bring the price down to a
level that the manufacturers consider viable, the products will be
announced with great fanfare, and all the people who are now listing
reasons why they are impossible or useless will hail them as the next
breakthrough.

Please, I've seen all of this before. In 1970 I argued with an
"expert" who maintained that dial-up modems could not run faster than
9600 bps without violating the laws of physics. A little later a
senior coworker lectured me on the differences between academia and
the real world when I suggested using a compiled language instead of
assembly language for some of our application development. A few years
later another "expert" concluded that I had no sense at all when I
refused to believe that 8-bit microcomputers met 99% of the market's
needs, and 16-bit machines would never be more than curiosities. At
about the same time another "expert" was exasperated when I criticized
his assertion that any well-designed application could be made to fit
into 64 KB of memory.

Are you bored yet? I am. I have never understood why some people
believe that the current state of technology -- whatever it happens to
be -- is ordained by natural law. Things change, guys. Monday's techno
fantasy becomes Wednesday's state of the art... and Friday's junk.

My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[James Kendrick]

The big difference is the Tablet PC is actually designed to be carried
around which in itself limits the size and weight of tolerance.

Post by Jonathan Sachs
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:55:42 +1000, "Ken Schaefer"

Post by Ken Schaefer
And the market for large screen 17" tablet PCs is probably about 2 people.
And those two people aren't willing to fork out $10000 for their tablets.

The larger screen would certainly be more expensive, although I think
your $10,000 estimate is excessive.
I suspect that price point _is_ the primary reason why we have not
seen large-screen nonportable tablet PCs yet. As soon as advancing
technology and increasing production volume bring the price down to a
level that the manufacturers consider viable, the products will be
announced with great fanfare, and all the people who are now listing
reasons why they are impossible or useless will hail them as the next
breakthrough.
Please, I've seen all of this before. In 1970 I argued with an
"expert" who maintained that dial-up modems could not run faster than
9600 bps without violating the laws of physics. A little later a
senior coworker lectured me on the differences between academia and
the real world when I suggested using a compiled language instead of
assembly language for some of our application development. A few years
later another "expert" concluded that I had no sense at all when I
refused to believe that 8-bit microcomputers met 99% of the market's
needs, and 16-bit machines would never be more than curiosities. At
about the same time another "expert" was exasperated when I criticized
his assertion that any well-designed application could be made to fit
into 64 KB of memory.
Are you bored yet? I am. I have never understood why some people
believe that the current state of technology -- whatever it happens to
be -- is ordained by natural law. Things change, guys. Monday's techno
fantasy becomes Wednesday's state of the art... and Friday's junk.
My email address is LLM041103 at earthlink dot net.

[Mickey Segal]

There are different motivations for getting Tablet PCs:
1. Some people want a Tablet to be able to use a computer on the go and not
have to fuss with a keyboard.
2. Some people want a computer with pen input.

The message of Microsoft's initial marketing of Tablets was #2, but I agree
with James Kendrick that for many people #1 is far more important, and
Microsoft has come around to evangelize this approach and the small hardware
that comes with it (James Kendrick was one of the voices urging this
approach). However, drawing on a computer is really helpful in some
situations (though a bother in others) and one would expect to see some
computers aimed towards #2.

This is not one of those situations where only one answer is right.
Different people have different needs and one would expect to see some large
Tablets for them as well as intermediate Tablets for others. Apple has a
variety of laptop sizes, from 12 inch to 17 inch:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=PowerBook
I bet when Apple finally does a Tablet they will add hardware that is even
smaller than this range, as companies such as Motion Computing are doing for
Tablet PCs.

Post by James Kendrick
The big difference is the Tablet PC is actually designed to be carried
around which in itself limits the size and weight of tolerance.

[Chris H.]

Just curious, Mickey. What is the difference between your #1 and #2? If
you don't have a keyboard, what is the best way of input? A pen? 8-) I
think I know what you meant, but perhaps not what you said. Hehehehe!
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Mickey Segal
1. Some people want a Tablet to be able to use a computer on the go and
not have to fuss with a keyboard.
2. Some people want a computer with pen input.

<snipped>

[Mickey Segal]

I am describing different motivations. Someone who wants to use a computer
on the go will favor a small Tablet, while someone wanting to draw on a
computer but not carry it around much will favor a large or jumbo tablet.
The different motivations suggest different computer sizes.

Post by Chris H.
Just curious, Mickey. What is the difference between your #1 and #2? If
you don't have a keyboard, what is the best way of input? A pen? 8-) I
think I know what you meant, but perhaps not what you said. Hehehehe!
--
Chris H.

Post by Mickey Segal
1. Some people want a Tablet to be able to use a computer on the go and
not have to fuss with a keyboard.
2. Some people want a computer with pen input.

<snipped>

[Chris H.]

Ah! Okay. I didn't catch the thought behind the selections. 8-) Thanks,
Mickey.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Mickey Segal
I am describing different motivations. Someone who wants to use a computer
on the go will favor a small Tablet, while someone wanting to draw on a
computer but not carry it around much will favor a large or jumbo tablet.
The different motivations suggest different computer sizes.

Post by Chris H.
Just curious, Mickey. What is the difference between your #1 and #2? If
you don't have a keyboard, what is the best way of input? A pen? 8-) I
think I know what you meant, but perhaps not what you said. Hehehehe!
--
Chris H.

Post by Mickey Segal
1. Some people want a Tablet to be able to use a computer on the go and
not have to fuss with a keyboard.
2. Some people want a computer with pen input.

<snipped>

[unknown]

I too greatly desire a 17 inch tablet with a bright, high quality
display at 1920x1200 resolution. Instead, I opted for the Lenovo
Thinkpad w700ds, which has a 17 inch monitor with a great display
(considered by a few publications as the greatest EVER display in a
laptop) and a wacom-tablet built in (on top of other features). It
weighs 13 pounds when you include the power brick, and saying "Oh, it's
not portable, though!" is bull**** because I carry it with me
everywhere. If it were a 17 inch tablet I would be happier though.

[Beverly Howard]

does your use for it have to run on battery power?

I ask since there are a number of touch screen pc's that meet the 17"
requirement and are the format and size of a tablet.

Beverly Howard

[unknown]

The battery actually lasts a good 3 hours on low-power mode if yo
don't use the second screen

--
Nillerz

You might be pleased to hear the recently at WinHEC 2005 Microsoft announced
that 150 dpi at 1920x1080 resolutions are ideal for Windows Longhorn
(Windows Vista) Aero interface.

Post by Chris H.
No. The bigger the Tablet PC configuration, the heavier it is.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Will
Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com

[terri]

No 17" yet, but take a close look at the Toshiba Tecra M4. It's quite a
large Tablet PC and I'd consider it close to a desktop replacement.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
http://themediacenterpc.net
Microsoft Featured Communities
Microsoft Windows MVP - Tablet PC

Post by Will
Does anyone make a 17 inch widescreen tablet PC?
--
Will
westes AT earthbroadcast.com