Installing XP Tablet on HD w/o built-in USB's or CD-ROM

[Norm]

My Tablet's USB ports don't work But an aftermarket PCMCIA USB hub did. The
Tablet does not have a CD-ROM. The original HD crashed. Now I don't know
how to install XP Tablet. If I take the HD out and make it an temp. external
drive on my Desktop, can I copy certain files onto the HD to get started?
Any Suggestions, or should I just toss it?
Norm

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Norm
My Tablet's USB ports don't work But an aftermarket PCMCIA USB hub
did. The Tablet does not have a CD-ROM. The original HD crashed.
Now I don't know how to install XP Tablet.

Try it with an external CD-ROM drive. I can not say, however, if the
BIOS will support booting from a drive connected with your PCMCIA card.

In case not you have to work around:
1.) Connect the new HDD to your desktop computer.
There are cheap adaptors for connecting a notebook-drive to the IDE of a
desktop.
2.) Create the necessary partitions. I would suggest two: one for the
system, the other for your data.
3.) Make the drive bootable with DOS. This can be done using a bootdisk,
f.e."Windows 98 SE Custom, No Ramdrive"
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm.
4.) Copy the whole of the i386 directory if your XP-CD on the second
partition. Copy the SP2 and SP3 files also.
Collect all of the manufacturer's drivers and software add-ons and add
them too.
5.) Put the HDD into the TabletPC, let it boot.
6.) Thereafter you can call the install from your drive D:

Caveat: It could be that the recipe might have to be slightly modified
in order to make the TabletPC parts of the OS available. It works fie
fro normal notebooks without CD-drives. But I did not yet try it in my
TabletPC.
It would be good if you could use an XP-CD with SP2 integrated. Then the
install could be done in one run.

Post by Norm
If I take the HD out and
make it an temp. external drive on my Desktop, can I copy certain
files onto the HD to get started?

You should least try to get hold if the data on the broken HDD.
Could be that the drive is not totally defective.

But you can not copy the IS and programs.
You have to make a fresh install from scratch.

Good luck
Rainald

[Norm]

Post by Rainald Taesler

Post by Norm
My Tablet's USB ports don't work But an aftermarket PCMCIA USB hub
did. The Tablet does not have a CD-ROM. The original HD crashed.
Now I don't know how to install XP Tablet.

Try it with an external CD-ROM drive. I can not say, however, if the
BIOS will support booting from a drive connected with your PCMCIA card.
1.) Connect the new HDD to your desktop computer.
There are cheap adaptors for connecting a notebook-drive to the IDE of a
desktop.
2.) Create the necessary partitions. I would suggest two: one for the
system, the other for your data.
3.) Make the drive bootable with DOS. This can be done using a bootdisk,
f.e."Windows 98 SE Custom, No Ramdrive"
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm.
4.) Copy the whole of the i386 directory if your XP-CD on the second
partition. Copy the SP2 and SP3 files also.
Collect all of the manufacturer's drivers and software add-ons and add
them too.
5.) Put the HDD into the TabletPC, let it boot.
Caveat: It could be that the recipe might have to be slightly modified
in order to make the TabletPC parts of the OS available. It works fie
fro normal notebooks without CD-drives. But I did not yet try it in my
TabletPC.
It would be good if you could use an XP-CD with SP2 integrated. Then the
install could be done in one run.

Post by Norm
If I take the HD out and
make it an temp. external drive on my Desktop, can I copy certain
files onto the HD to get started?

You should least try to get hold if the data on the broken HDD.
Could be that the drive is not totally defective.
But you can not copy the IS and programs.
You have to make a fresh install from scratch.
Good luck
Rainald

Thank you Rainald for the help. I have partitioned the tablets HD using a
eide to usb adaptor. Loaded i386 on "Data" partition, and put all the
drivers I could find on the "system" partition.
I have the Operating Sustem Recovery CD, but the Tablet won't boot from it.
Yes, I reconfigured Bios and put CD-Rom first in boot order.
The problem I have now is making the HD bootable. I went to the bootdisk
site and downloaded your recommendation, but it wants a floppy drive, which I
don't have. Happy to make a donatiion on the site but what should I use now??

[Rainald Taesler]

[recipe]

Post by Norm
Thank you Rainald for the help. I have partitioned the tablets HD
using a eide to usb adaptor. Loaded i386 on "Data" partition, and
put all the drivers I could find on the "system" partition.

The latter was not wise at all. You'll need them later and when
formatting
the partition during the install the are gee.
Move everything to the data partition.

Post by Norm
I have the Operating System Recovery CD, but the Tablet won't boot
from it. Yes, I reconfigured Bios and put CD-Rom first in boot order.

OK (or better: not good)
So we will work with booting from the HDD with DOS.

Which kind of Recover CD do you gave?
Is the OS (Win XP) integrated or is the OS separately in CD(s)? If the
latter: how many?
BTW: Which brand if TabletPC?

Post by Norm
The problem I have now is making the HD bootable. I went to the
bootdisk site and downloaded your recommendation, but it wants a
floppy drive, which I don't have. Happy to make a donatiion on the
site but what should I use now??

Bo problem. I created an ISO-image of the boot disk (app. 3MB) Collect
it from my FTP-site:
ftp://ftp.hs-heilbronn.de/vdb/compaq/bootdisks/bootdisk98se.iso .
Then burn a CD from it.
Then open a DOS-B (CMD = commandline prompt), navigate to the CD-drive.
Use FORMAT to format the HDD ad transfer the DOS system:

format <drive-letter> /s

where <drive letter> means the system partition of the notebook HDD.
Enter this without the brackets, f.e.:

format g: /s

So far steps.
The rest will depend on the type if your OS/Recovery CDs.

I'll be away (abroad) until next Friday. I might be able to check the
news but I'll mist probably it be able to reply.

Rainald

[Norm]

OK, every thing moved to data partition.
I have a Motion Computing M1400. The recovery disk starts up just like a
WinXP installation disk. When I put the disk in the cd-rom the Menu comes up.

Tried format g: /s but it would not accept the /s

Downloaded all the files available on BootDisk web site (Paid the $4
w/paypal) But could not get the HD to boot in the tablet.

Question: When the HD is able to boot, will I be able to plug the eide/usb
cable into my laptop and it would boot up? Not sure I said that right.

Thanks again for your help


Norm

Post by Rainald Taesler
So far steps.
The rest will depend on the type if your OS/Recovery CDs.
I'll be away (abroad) until next Friday. I might be able to check the
news but I'll mist probably it be able to reply.
Rainald

[Norm]

Rainald, I hope you have not given up on me?

Norman

Post by Norm
OK, every thing moved to data partition.
I have a Motion Computing M1400. The recovery disk starts up just like a
WinXP installation disk. When I put the disk in the cd-rom the Menu comes up.
Tried format g: /s but it would not accept the /s
Downloaded all the files available on BootDisk web site (Paid the $4
w/paypal) But could not get the HD to boot in the tablet.
Question: When the HD is able to boot, will I be able to plug the eide/usb
cable into my laptop and it would boot up? Not sure I said that right.
Thanks again for your help
Norm

Post by Rainald Taesler
So far steps.
The rest will depend on the type if your OS/Recovery CDs.
I'll be away (abroad) until next Friday. I might be able to check the
news but I'll mist probably it be able to reply.
Rainald

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Norm
Rainald, I hope you have not given up on me?

For sure not.
Things are a bit complicated. So I need some tome.

Rainald

Post by Norm

Post by Norm
OK, every thing moved to data partition.
I have a Motion Computing M1400. The recovery disk starts up just
like a WinXP installation disk. When I put the disk in the cd-rom
the Menu comes up.
Tried format g: /s but it would not accept the /s
Downloaded all the files available on BootDisk web site (Paid the $4
w/paypal) But could not get the HD to boot in the tablet.
Question: When the HD is able to boot, will I be able to plug the
eide/usb cable into my laptop and it would boot up? Not sure I said
that right.
Thanks again for your help
Norm

Post by Rainald Taesler
So far steps.
The rest will depend on the type if your OS/Recovery CDs.
I'll be away (abroad) until next Friday. I might be able to check
the news but I'll mist probably it be able to reply.
Rainald

[Ian]

Post by Norm
My Tablet's USB ports don't work But an aftermarket PCMCIA USB hub did. The
Tablet does not have a CD-ROM. The original HD crashed. Now I don't know
how to install XP Tablet. If I take the HD out and make it an temp. external
drive on my Desktop, can I copy certain files onto the HD to get started?
Any Suggestions, or should I just toss it?
Norm

Norm, do you have the docking station for the M1400? I had a similar issue
with my M1400 and I found that I could plug an IDE cd-rom drive into the usb
port on the docking station using a usb adapter, and then just do the reload
with the tablet sitting in the docking station using the Motion Computing
reload disc

word of warning, for whatever reason, SP3 causes severe issues on the m1400
tablet.

[Beverly Howard]

This might be a good excuse to load windows 7 (which has tablet extensions)

since your pcmcia usb hub works that might be the basis of running an
install off of a usb memory key containing windows 7... high capacity
usb memory keys are pretty cheap, but, be aware, may not offer boot
options, especially via the pcmcia hub.

How hard is it to remove the hard drive? There are $20 usb hd adapters
that will allow you to fully set up a bootable drive using a different pc.

Spend some time on the internet to find a good win7 help forum... things
to ask;

which version (the skinny is not ultimate unless it has something
specific you need)

Get tips on memory key installs... the good news is that with the advent
of netbooks, this is a common need nowadays.

You have 120 days to run _with no product key_ nice amount of time to
decide if you want to stay... if you use a product key before the 120
day limit that will demand one, the money's been spent.

Disclaimer... I'm an observer... collecting facts and impressions of
win7 but have not gone there (yet)

Beverly Howard

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Beverly Howard
Disclaimer... I'm an observer... collecting facts and impressions of
win7 but have not gone there (yet)

Sorry to say this:
You are talking like the blind one on colours!

IMHO your posting is good for nothing but spreading confusion.
Are you following the device: "The situation has been complicated
enough. Why not stir up things a bit more"?

Sadly Yours
Rainald

[Beverly Howard]

IMHO your posting is good for nothing but spreading confusion. <<

Your opinion is noted.

However, I stand by my opinions.

Have a nice day anyway,
Beverly Howard

[Norm]

Thank You, Ian. I recently bouught off ebay a Flex Dock, Motion Computing
docking station, primaily for the purpose you suggested. It does not work.
When I plug my external cd-rom in, with the recovery disk in it, the cd-rom
light comes on for a few seconds, and nothing more. I tried restarting the
tablet with the cdrom plugged into the docking station usb port. Same
results.
Durint the tablets start-up I can tap the screen with the pen, and get into
Bios. I have changed the boot order from HDD to Cdrom to removable devices.
Nothing. Just a flashing _ at the top left on the screen. B & W.
Thanks again, Norm

Post by Ian

Post by Norm
My Tablet's USB ports don't work But an aftermarket PCMCIA USB hub did. The
Tablet does not have a CD-ROM. The original HD crashed. Now I don't know
how to install XP Tablet. If I take the HD out and make it an temp. external
drive on my Desktop, can I copy certain files onto the HD to get started?
Any Suggestions, or should I just toss it?
Norm

Norm, do you have the docking station for the M1400? I had a similar issue
with my M1400 and I found that I could plug an IDE cd-rom drive into the usb
port on the docking station using a usb adapter, and then just do the reload
with the tablet sitting in the docking station using the Motion Computing
reload disc
word of warning, for whatever reason, SP3 causes severe issues on the m1400
tablet.

[Ian]

Post by Norm
Thank You, Ian. I recently bouught off ebay a Flex Dock, Motion Computing
docking station, primaily for the purpose you suggested. It does not work.
When I plug my external cd-rom in, with the recovery disk in it, the cd-rom
light comes on for a few seconds, and nothing more. I tried restarting the
tablet with the cdrom plugged into the docking station usb port. Same
results.
Durint the tablets start-up I can tap the screen with the pen, and get into
Bios. I have changed the boot order from HDD to Cdrom to removable devices.
Nothing. Just a flashing _ at the top left on the screen. B & W.
Thanks again, Norm

for an external CD-rom drive, are you using one that is hub powered, as in
only has a usb cable, or one with an external power source as well? you may
want to use one with an external power source to prevent the usb ports from
being shut off; they may not be getting enough voltage.

another stupid thing: does your cd-rom support bootable disks.. I've had a
few cd-roms, both ide and usb external that did not for whatever reason.

the other questions I have: is your reload cd an original Motion computing,
or a copied? just had to ask because I've seen some copies floating around
where the boot sector was bad.

usually when you attempt to boot off a cd-rom and all you get is the
flashing cursor, and then it goes to error or whatever other screen, it's
because that for whatever reason, the drive is not reading a boot sector on
the disk - either it doesn't support it, or it's not on the disk to begin
with.

The only other option I can see is to pull the harddrive.
You need to attach it to another pc with an adapter. Format the drive as
FAT32. Then copy a BARE dos bootable cd to the drive. (io.sys, command.com,
msdos.sys) and then copy the entire cd into a folder on the drive as well.

example: c:\installcd

when it starts up, it should boot to a basic c:\> then you can go into the
folder c:\installcd\i386

and run winnt.exe that will start the dos install routine. you can install
to an existing partition on the drive without losing the data already there
from the cd.

patience is key, because you may end up repeating yourself quite a few times
to get it to install right.

[Norm]

Thank You Ian, Beverly, and Rainald,

Well in frustration I bought another M1400 off ebay, last night. My plan is
to use Acronis True Image and copy the image of the new one to the old one.
The old one has the "View Anywhere" screen and I want it for navigation
purposes on my sailboat. If this works, I will probably sell the one I just
bought. I figure this is probably cheaper than sending it in to the copany
for repair.

I have the original Recovery CD. My ext. Cd-Rom is separately powered. If
I have the CD-Rom plugged into my laptop and close the drive with the
recovery disk in it, it autoruns and has a menu to install WinXP. But not
with the tablet.

The usb hub/pcmcia card won't work because the drivers are needed on the
tablet.
Thanks to all, I will keep you posted,

Norm

Post by Ian

Post by Norm
Thank You, Ian. I recently bouught off ebay a Flex Dock, Motion Computing
docking station, primaily for the purpose you suggested. It does not work.
When I plug my external cd-rom in, with the recovery disk in it, the cd-rom
light comes on for a few seconds, and nothing more. I tried restarting the
tablet with the cdrom plugged into the docking station usb port. Same
results.
Durint the tablets start-up I can tap the screen with the pen, and get into
Bios. I have changed the boot order from HDD to Cdrom to removable devices.
Nothing. Just a flashing _ at the top left on the screen. B & W.
Thanks again, Norm

for an external CD-rom drive, are you using one that is hub powered, as in
only has a usb cable, or one with an external power source as well? you may
want to use one with an external power source to prevent the usb ports from
being shut off; they may not be getting enough voltage.
another stupid thing: does your cd-rom support bootable disks.. I've had a
few cd-roms, both ide and usb external that did not for whatever reason.
the other questions I have: is your reload cd an original Motion computing,
or a copied? just had to ask because I've seen some copies floating around
where the boot sector was bad.
usually when you attempt to boot off a cd-rom and all you get is the
flashing cursor, and then it goes to error or whatever other screen, it's
because that for whatever reason, the drive is not reading a boot sector on
the disk - either it doesn't support it, or it's not on the disk to begin
with.
The only other option I can see is to pull the harddrive.
You need to attach it to another pc with an adapter. Format the drive as
FAT32. Then copy a BARE dos bootable cd to the drive. (io.sys, command.com,
msdos.sys) and then copy the entire cd into a folder on the drive as well.
example: c:\installcd
when it starts up, it should boot to a basic c:\> then you can go into the
folder c:\installcd\i386
and run winnt.exe that will start the dos install routine. you can install
to an existing partition on the drive without losing the data already there
from the cd.
patience is key, because you may end up repeating yourself quite a few times
to get it to install right.

[Rainald Taesler]

Hi Ian,
your below quoted suggestion is some kind of a modification of what I
had suggested in my posting if Sept. 17 (Message-ID:
<#***@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>)
They contain what I see as serious mistakes. Ps see below

Post by Ian
The only other option I can see is to pull the harddrive.
You need to attach it to another pc with an adapter. Format the drive
as FAT32. Then copy a BARE dos bootable cd to the drive. (io.sys,
command.com, msdos.sys)

This is not sufficient. The HDD would not be able to boot with DOS if
the DOS-files are only *copied* to the drive.
To make a disk bootable (be it floppy or HDD) it's necessary to transfer
the system files and to create the needed MBR.
This can be done with either
FORMAT <drive letter> /S
or with

Post by Ian
and then copy the entire cd into a folder on
the drive as well.
example: c:\installcd

No. The files for installing the OS should be copied to a separate
partition.

Post by Ian
when it starts up, it should boot to a basic c:\> then you can go
into the folder c:\installcd\i386
and run winnt.exe that will start the dos install routine. you can
install to an existing partition on the drive without losing the data
already there from the cd.

Working this way will naturally *remove* the directory holding the
install files when during the install the HDD will be formatted.
Therefore the "i386" directory has to be copied to a second partition,
f.e. d:\i386.
The second partition world later be the proper place for storing the
data.

Post by Ian
patience is key, because you may end up repeating yourself quite a
few times to get it to install right.

Agreed.

Pls do not misunderstand my intervention. It's not not only based on my
own experience but also on the results of literally hundreds of cases in
the HP notebook forum where I was able to help users being unable to
install Windows from a CD.

Rainald

[Norm]

Rainald, Do you know that format e: /s did not work? I would like to try
sys c: but not sure at what point to do this.
Here is the latest: Received a second M1400, has WinXp SP3 installed. It
recognizes a external usb dvd-writer, but not a 2.5" HD on a usb/eide
adaptor. The HD/USB is recognized on the Acer Netbook I have, so I know it
communicates. Doesn't WINXP have all the drivers you ever need? I think I
will remove the HD from the tablet I just bought and try it on the old (to
me) one and see if it will startup. Any thoughts on this?

Norm

Post by Rainald Taesler
Hi Ian,
your below quoted suggestion is some kind of a modification of what I
They contain what I see as serious mistakes. Ps see below

Post by Ian
The only other option I can see is to pull the harddrive.
You need to attach it to another pc with an adapter. Format the drive
as FAT32. Then copy a BARE dos bootable cd to the drive. (io.sys,
command.com, msdos.sys)

This is not sufficient. The HDD would not be able to boot with DOS if
the DOS-files are only *copied* to the drive.
To make a disk bootable (be it floppy or HDD) it's necessary to transfer
the system files and to create the needed MBR.
This can be done with either
FORMAT <drive letter> /S
or with

Post by Ian
and then copy the entire cd into a folder on
the drive as well.
example: c:\installcd

No. The files for installing the OS should be copied to a separate
partition.

Post by Ian
when it starts up, it should boot to a basic c:\> then you can go
into the folder c:\installcd\i386
and run winnt.exe that will start the dos install routine. you can
install to an existing partition on the drive without losing the data
already there from the cd.

Working this way will naturally *remove* the directory holding the
install files when during the install the HDD will be formatted.
Therefore the "i386" directory has to be copied to a second partition,
f.e. d:\i386.
The second partition world later be the proper place for storing the
data.

Post by Ian
patience is key, because you may end up repeating yourself quite a
few times to get it to install right.

Agreed.
Pls do not misunderstand my intervention. It's not not only based on my
own experience but also on the results of literally hundreds of cases in
the HP notebook forum where I was able to help users being unable to
install Windows from a CD.
Rainald

[Norm]

Well the HD from the new one worked in the old one. Now to copy the image
from one to the other. Maybe as ext usb drives on my Laptop. Would Acronis
True Image do this?
norm

Post by Rainald Taesler
Hi Ian,
your below quoted suggestion is some kind of a modification of what I
They contain what I see as serious mistakes. Ps see below

Post by Ian
The only other option I can see is to pull the harddrive.
You need to attach it to another pc with an adapter. Format the drive
as FAT32. Then copy a BARE dos bootable cd to the drive. (io.sys,
command.com, msdos.sys)

This is not sufficient. The HDD would not be able to boot with DOS if
the DOS-files are only *copied* to the drive.
To make a disk bootable (be it floppy or HDD) it's necessary to transfer
the system files and to create the needed MBR.
This can be done with either
FORMAT <drive letter> /S
or with

Post by Ian
and then copy the entire cd into a folder on
the drive as well.
example: c:\installcd

No. The files for installing the OS should be copied to a separate
partition.

Post by Ian
when it starts up, it should boot to a basic c:\> then you can go
into the folder c:\installcd\i386
and run winnt.exe that will start the dos install routine. you can
install to an existing partition on the drive without losing the data
already there from the cd.

Working this way will naturally *remove* the directory holding the
install files when during the install the HDD will be formatted.
Therefore the "i386" directory has to be copied to a second partition,
f.e. d:\i386.
The second partition world later be the proper place for storing the
data.

Post by Ian
patience is key, because you may end up repeating yourself quite a
few times to get it to install right.

Agreed.
Pls do not misunderstand my intervention. It's not not only based on my
own experience but also on the results of literally hundreds of cases in
the HP notebook forum where I was able to help users being unable to
install Windows from a CD.
Rainald

[Whatever]

Post by Norm
Well the HD from the new one worked in the old one. Now to copy the image
from one to the other. Maybe as ext usb drives on my Laptop. Would Acronis
True Image do this?
norm

Yes.

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Norm
Well the HD from the new one worked in the old one. Now to copy the image
from one to the other. Maybe as ext usb drives on my Laptop. Would Acronis
True Image do this?
norm

Yes.

For sure.
But it needs a bit of care!

Rainald