Can I run Windows tablet edition on desk PC?

[Vlad]

The point to do this - I use WACOM Cintiq tablet-screen, which is basically
similar to tablet input device. I'm keen to have ability to write text on it
in the same manner as on tablet notebook.

[Paul Smith]

Post by Vlad
The point to do this - I use WACOM Cintiq tablet-screen, which is basically
similar to tablet input device. I'm keen to have ability to write text on it
in the same manner as on tablet notebook.

The short answer is no. I believe if you're a developer then you can use
the SDK and other tools etc to produce similar results (however I don't
believe even then you'll have the pressure sensitive information coming in).

[Chris H.]

No, basically. A writing pad is not the same as the digital recognizers
built into Tablet PCs, besides there is no over-the-counter sales of the
Windows XP Pro/Tablet PC Edition package. The experience, without a digital
monitor and digital input, is not very good. For instance, the OneNote
program Ink only works with the Tablet PC hardware setup, and using a
writing pad only produces a graphic "drawing" of handwriting which is not
searchable, not editable and huge.

If you're interested in developing for Tablet PCs using a desktop, check out
the microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer newsgroup. There are means
to develop on desktops.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Vlad
The point to do this - I use WACOM Cintiq tablet-screen, which is basically
similar to tablet input device. I'm keen to have ability to write text on it
in the same manner as on tablet notebook.

[Vladm]

Post by Chris H.
No, basically. A writing pad is not the same as the digital recognizers
built into Tablet PCs, besides there is no over-the-counter sales of the
Windows XP Pro/Tablet PC Edition package. The experience, without a digital
monitor and digital input, is not very good.

Well, perhaps I've explained situation not quite clear. WACOM device I have
is not just tablet, it's a LCD screen combined with tablet and pen in one
device. Basically it's the the same stuff as on tabletPCs, but larger (right
now I've got 17" and planning to move to 21"). It perfectly works with
graphics tools like PhotShop and 3D and CAD software we're developing
oureselves. It's much more intutive and handy than mouse, just like good old
drawing board :)

What I'm curious is - would be it possible to use either Windows tablet
edition (well, lets forgt for a minute, that it's not being sold separately
from tablet PCs or notebooks) or develop software using Tablet SDK on regular
Windows XP to provide people with all sort of Ink-style input?

Post by Chris H.
If you're interested in developing for Tablet PCs using a desktop, check out
the microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer newsgroup. There are means
to develop on desktops.

There's no problem in developing for Tablet PC on desktop, that's right.
What we're after is GUI similar to Tablet PC on desk PCs with penabled large
screens.

[Jan Wagner]

Post by Vladm
Well, perhaps I've explained situation not quite clear. WACOM device I have
is not just tablet, it's a LCD screen combined with tablet and pen in one
device. Basically it's the the same stuff as on tabletPCs, but larger (right
now I've got 17" and planning to move to 21"). It perfectly works with
graphics tools like PhotShop and 3D and CAD software we're developing
oureselves. It's much more intutive and handy than mouse, just like good old
drawing board :)

As far as I have understood, XP Tablet edition looks for certain tablet
digitizer hardware, e.g. a Wacom HID compliant digitizer on i/o 0x6f8
irq 6 behind a serial interface of the 82801DBM (YMMV), and one that
uses the ISD V4 protocol (though AFAIK they all do...). The XP Tablet OS
or the tablet driver has some software restrictions which enable full
inking, TIP and recognition only when that specific hardware is present.

Additionally, if you read:

http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/driver.cfm

"Q: Can I use this driver to get the Tablet PC's Ink feature with a
standard Wacom tablet on a desktop system?

A: No, the Ink Feature requires a Tablet PC. Note for developers: This
driver will support Ink on a desktop system that has the Tablet PC SDK
installed. Note that the cursor will not move unless WispTis.exe (the
Microsoft Tablet PC Platform Component) is running. If it is not, you
can launch it from the Start->Run dialog. The purpose of this type of
installation is for those doing Tablet PC application development. If
you are not running Windows XP Tablet Edition and you do not have the
Tablet PC SDK installed you should not install this driver."

Which also answers your question about the SDK and inking.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=B46D4B83-A821-40BC-AA85-C9EE3D6E9699&displaylang=en
(link may wrap...)

"Note: The Tablet PC Development Kit can be installed on certain
non-Tablet PC operating systems (listed above). On these platforms your
application can collect ink with the InkCollector class and can be
tested and debugged. The InkEdit and InkPicture controls can be used to
collect ink on these operating systems when the Tablet PC SDK is
installed, but are not able to collect ink on non-Tablet PC systems that
do not have the Tablet PC SDK installed."

I didn't find the SDK licencing, but IIRC it states something along the
lines of "you may not redistribute the Tablet SDK with your
applications" and that the SDK is for development purposes only (i.e.
not end user)

And OTOH, the external Cintiq "screen + tablet" can't be really replaced
with a Tablet PC, except maybe with some (as of yet non-existent?)
remote desktop or xwindows style system that is enhanced so it'd
transmit pen pressure information.

regards,
- Jan

[Josh Einstein]

Not exactly true. When Tablet OS is installed on a desktop it will work with
a mouse. If a Wacom HID driver is available, great then stylus input will
improve the smoothness and fidelity of the ink, but if not, it will function
as a mouse and recognition and TIP will work just fine.

Post by Jan Wagner
uses the ISD V4 protocol (though AFAIK they all do...). The XP Tablet OS
or the tablet driver has some software restrictions which enable full
inking, TIP and recognition only when that specific hardware is present.

[billso]

I'm running the Tablet PC edition OS on two different desktop PCs - a
Pentium 4 and an Athlon 64. I have access to the install ISO and
product keys through my university's MSDNAA subscription. Non-academic
users can get the installs through MSDN's OS package.

I'm not doing any Tablet PC development work. I already have an Acer
Tablet PC, and I wanted the option of marking my students' assignments
with ink on my desktop in a larger screen. I also use OneNote a lot,
although I alternate between typing and inking on the desktop.

So far, the Tablet PC edition is working fine with my Wacom Graphire
tablets. A larger graphics tablet works better for inking. Ink works
everywhere it should, including Word and OneNote.

I hope that Microsoft does roll the Tablet PC functionality into
Longhorn. The added options would help some users. Offering the Tablet
PC edition as a limited distribution package doesn't help users try the
Tablet features, either.

Some hints for the Tablet PC edition install from my notes:

Use PartitionMagic or another disk partitioning tool to set up a new
primary partition. Do a dual boot install of the Tablet PC OS. If the
Tablet PC edition install doesn't work, you'll still have your current
setup.

The Tablet PC edition requires two installation CDs. Disk 1 is
essentially Windows XP Professional. After you get to the graphical
install, you should be prompted for installation disk 2, which includes
the Tablet PC components. If you don't get that disk 2 installation
prompt, you won't see the Tablet PC input panel and control panel after
you finish the installation process, and you'll probably have to
reinstall the OS. There's no convenient way to add the Tablet PC
components after the installation.

I had poor results when I tried to slipstream SP2 into the Tablet PC
edition install. It's easier and more reliable to install SP2 after the
installation is complete.

The Tablet PC edition install won't install your Wacom tablet. Leave it
unplugged during the OS install. Once you have SP2 applied, leave
System Restore on, and try installing the Wacom Penabled drivers from
http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/driver.cfm If the new drivers don't work
for you, do a rollback and try your tablet's normal drivers instead.

[Vladm]

Thanks a lot to all of you, guys.

As far as I understood - there's no other option to be sure but to make
experiments by oureselves :) Unlikely it wouldn't help much to our customers..

Sahme that tere's not regular way from MS to use tablet PC features on the
desk PC though. Well, lets wait what Longhorn will be..

[Chris H.]

Unless you have digital recognizers, either on a Tablet PC or on a digital
monitor, your Ink experience will generally be that of a mouse sampling
rate. In other words, unless the way the input is sampled using the 130
samples per second, plus, the Tablet PCs use, you're probably going to be
getting the 40 or so rate of a mouse.

The reason for the hardware requirements of Tablet PCs, and the higher
sampling rate is to ensure optimal recognition, speed and user experience.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Vladm
Thanks a lot to all of you, guys.
As far as I understood - there's no other option to be sure but to make
experiments by oureselves :) Unlikely it wouldn't help much to our customers..
Sahme that tere's not regular way from MS to use tablet PC features on the
desk PC though. Well, lets wait what Longhorn will be..

[Vladm]

Thanks, Chris, I know that - I have both digital screen and tabletPC, so
we've already learned a lot about all that stuff.

What I just wanted - to have on desktop with digital scree the same system
built-in features as on tablet. Unlikely there was no distributive ow Windows
for tablet (Tablet PC come with OS preinstalled) this why I asked my
question..

Post by Chris H.
Unless you have digital recognizers, either on a Tablet PC or on a digital
monitor, your Ink experience will generally be that of a mouse sampling
rate. In other words, unless the way the input is sampled using the 130
samples per second, plus, the Tablet PCs use, you're probably going to be
getting the 40 or so rate of a mouse.

[Chris H.]

There are only two sources: Pre-installed on an OEM Tablet PC or via an
MSDN subscription for development purposes only, if I am understanding your
question properly.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Vladm
Thanks, Chris, I know that - I have both digital screen and tabletPC, so
we've already learned a lot about all that stuff.
What I just wanted - to have on desktop with digital scree the same system
built-in features as on tablet. Unlikely there was no distributive ow Windows
for tablet (Tablet PC come with OS preinstalled) this why I asked my
question..

Post by Chris H.
Unless you have digital recognizers, either on a Tablet PC or on a digital
monitor, your Ink experience will generally be that of a mouse sampling
rate. In other words, unless the way the input is sampled using the 130
samples per second, plus, the Tablet PCs use, you're probably going to be
getting the 40 or so rate of a mouse.

[Stefan Wick[MS]]

Post by Jan Wagner

Post by Jan Wagner
I didn't find the SDK licencing, but IIRC it states something along the
lines of "you may not redistribute the Tablet SDK with your
applications"

This is actually not correct. All components (except for the PenInputPanel)
that ship in the Tablet PC SDK are redistributable. The SDK contains a
collection of .msm files to facilitate the redistribution. See [1] for
details.

Thanks,
Stefan Wick

[1]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/lonestar/whitepapers/designguide/tbconuxdgcreatingredistributablecomponents.asp
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm

Post by Jan Wagner

Post by Jan Wagner
Well, perhaps I've explained situation not quite clear. WACOM device I
have is not just tablet, it's a LCD screen combined with tablet and pen
in one device. Basically it's the the same stuff as on tabletPCs, but
larger (right now I've got 17" and planning to move to 21"). It perfectly
works with graphics tools like PhotShop and 3D and CAD software we're
developing oureselves. It's much more intutive and handy than mouse, just
like good old drawing board :)

As far as I have understood, XP Tablet edition looks for certain tablet
digitizer hardware, e.g. a Wacom HID compliant digitizer on i/o 0x6f8 irq
6 behind a serial interface of the 82801DBM (YMMV), and one that uses the
ISD V4 protocol (though AFAIK they all do...). The XP Tablet OS or the
tablet driver has some software restrictions which enable full inking, TIP
and recognition only when that specific hardware is present.
http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/driver.cfm
"Q: Can I use this driver to get the Tablet PC's Ink feature with a
standard Wacom tablet on a desktop system?
A: No, the Ink Feature requires a Tablet PC. Note for developers: This
driver will support Ink on a desktop system that has the Tablet PC SDK
installed. Note that the cursor will not move unless WispTis.exe (the
Microsoft Tablet PC Platform Component) is running. If it is not, you can
launch it from the Start->Run dialog. The purpose of this type of
installation is for those doing Tablet PC application development. If you
are not running Windows XP Tablet Edition and you do not have the Tablet
PC SDK installed you should not install this driver."
Which also answers your question about the SDK and inking.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=B46D4B83-A821-40BC-AA85-C9EE3D6E9699&displaylang=en
(link may wrap...)
"Note: The Tablet PC Development Kit can be installed on certain
non-Tablet PC operating systems (listed above). On these platforms your
application can collect ink with the InkCollector class and can be tested
and debugged. The InkEdit and InkPicture controls can be used to collect
ink on these operating systems when the Tablet PC SDK is installed, but
are not able to collect ink on non-Tablet PC systems that do not have the
Tablet PC SDK installed."
I didn't find the SDK licencing, but IIRC it states something along the
lines of "you may not redistribute the Tablet SDK with your applications"
and that the SDK is for development purposes only (i.e. not end user)
And OTOH, the external Cintiq "screen + tablet" can't be really replaced
with a Tablet PC, except maybe with some (as of yet non-existent?) remote
desktop or xwindows style system that is enhanced so it'd transmit pen
pressure information.
regards,
- Jan

[Chris H.]

Sounds like an excellent setup, however I would suggest you post your
question in the programmer section over in the
microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer newsgroup. They're the ones who
work with non-Tablet PC setups in development and know how to set things up.
Stefan Wick of Microsoft closely monitors that newsgroup, and would be able
to best respond to you.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Vladm

Post by Chris H.
No, basically. A writing pad is not the same as the digital recognizers
built into Tablet PCs, besides there is no over-the-counter sales of the
Windows XP Pro/Tablet PC Edition package. The experience, without a digital
monitor and digital input, is not very good.

Well, perhaps I've explained situation not quite clear. WACOM device I have
is not just tablet, it's a LCD screen combined with tablet and pen in one
device. Basically it's the the same stuff as on tabletPCs, but larger (right
now I've got 17" and planning to move to 21"). It perfectly works with
graphics tools like PhotShop and 3D and CAD software we're developing
oureselves. It's much more intutive and handy than mouse, just like good old
drawing board :)
What I'm curious is - would be it possible to use either Windows tablet
edition (well, lets forgt for a minute, that it's not being sold separately
from tablet PCs or notebooks) or develop software using Tablet SDK on regular
Windows XP to provide people with all sort of Ink-style input?

Post by Chris H.
If you're interested in developing for Tablet PCs using a desktop, check out
the microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer newsgroup. There are means
to develop on desktops.

There's no problem in developing for Tablet PC on desktop, that's right.
What we're after is GUI similar to Tablet PC on desk PCs with penabled large
screens.

[M. Rajesh]

Hi,

the point is that Tablet PC OS is not available off the shelf and is
available only for MSDN Subscribers for development. This can be installed on
a desktop and then a wACOM tablet pen attached to get teh same inking
features.

However there are certain limitations to using this OS for development
purposes and I suggest that you read the license found in MSDN Subscriptions
for more details.
--
Regards
M. Rajesh
.Net and Windows Shell MVP
www.winxpsolution.com.
Windows MarketPlace Moderator

Post by Vlad
The point to do this - I use WACOM Cintiq tablet-screen, which is basically
similar to tablet input device. I'm keen to have ability to write text on it
in the same manner as on tablet notebook.